Crying it out not working

Crying it out not working

by Kris
(Cleveland OH)

My 7 month old wakes up every night at the same time. We allow him to cry it out but he is still waking at the same time. We have been doing this since he was about 4 months old.

I followed the advice about a routine every night with a bath at 7:30 then his last bottle at around 8 and put him in bed awake at 8:30. At 8:30 he will usually cry for about 3 to 5 minutes and then falls asleep.

He then wakes around 1:00 am so we let him cry it out then he wakes again about 3:00 am and again we let him cry it out. He will cry for between 5 and 10 minutes. Then when he wakes at around 4:30 we will give him a bottle and put him to bed where he will then cry for about a minute before he falls back asleep and sleeps another 2 to 3 hours.

I'm confused that crying it out isn't working since we've been doing this for a couple of months and always read it should fix the waking after at least a week. Any help is appreciated.

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Crying it out not working

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Jan 01, 2009
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Find the Cause...Find the Cure
by: Heather ;-)

Kris,

We've let our children "cry it out" before and yes, it is a hard time for everyone! In my experience, a long cry-spell could be a sign of something other than just "stubbornness". There is really one main issue here: why is he waking up in the first place? Chances are if you answer that, you'll be able to figure out how to get him back to sleep again. Ask yourself some basic questions:

Could he be teething? If so, a little Infant Motrin could help get him through the night without waking.

Is he not eating enough dinner? We find that on the evenings when Elena doesn't eat well, she wakes up hungry in the night. Trying to encourage her to eat more, and offering another bottle of formula when she DOES wake up (not forever, just to get through this period) helps a lot. He could be going through a growth spurt that makes him especially hungry.

Are his pajamas too small? Some babies are more sensitive than others. Lauren would always let me know when her feetie-pj's were not allowing her to fully stretch out.

Do you have a bumper pad on the crib? Elena is an active sleeper. She rolls around a LOT. Without the bumper pads, she would hit her head on the rungs and wake up screaming. We chose flat bumper pads - not curved, and put them up for a few nights. She started sleeping through the night again.

I hope these may help you. Please feel free to comment back!

Heather ;-)

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Jan 01, 2009
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Submitted by: Heather ;-)

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Kris, We've let our children "cry it out" before and yes, it is a hard time for everyone! In my experience, a long cry-spell could be a sign of something other than just "stubbornness". There is really one main issue here: why is he waking up in the first place? Chances are if you answer that, you'll be able to figure out how to get him back to sleep again. Ask yourself some basic questions: Could he be teething? If so, a little Infant Motrin could help get him through the night without waking. Is he not eating enough dinner? We find that on the evenings when Elena doesn't eat well, she wakes up hungry in the night. Trying to encourage her to eat more, and offering another bottle of formula when she DOES wake up (not forever, just to get through this period) helps a lot. He could be going through a growth spurt that makes him especially hungry. Are his pajamas too small? Some babies are more sensitive than others. Lauren would always let me know when her feetie-pj's were not allowing her to fully stretch out. Do you have a bumper pad on the crib? Elena is an active sleeper. She rolls around a LOT. Without the bumper pads, she would hit her head on the rungs and wake up screaming. We chose flat bumper pads - not curved, and put them up for a few nights. She started sleeping through the night again. I hope these may help you. Please feel free to comment back! Heather ;-)

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Sep 28, 2009
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More help re: crying it out
by: Anonymous

Kris, I'm in the same boat. My 5 1/2 month old is a post-colic baby who has some serious residual sleep issues. We've been using the "full extinction" method (basically crying it out) recommended for post-colic babies in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby by Weissbluth. We've been really consistent, and he still wakes sometimes 6-8 times a night. The book does warn that post-colic kids are toughest, perhaps because they are so used to crying.

With all due respect, Heather, all babies...all humans, in fact...wake many times during the night as a natural part of the sleep cycle. The problem with young babies is an inability to get back to sleep...they haven't learned how. This often happens if the child has always been rocked or nursed to sleep, for example, never giving the baby an opportunity to get himself to sleep. Advocates of crying it out say if you give the baby the opportunity to learn (by leaving him in his crib, crying or not)he will eventually learn.

So, back to you Kris. That's why it's frustrating for us, because we're following the method,and it's not working. In all the anecdotes in the books, everyone says that after a few nights or a week, baby sleeps through the night and wakes with a smile. Have you overcome this problem since your first post? Anyone else out there that used crying it out have any recommendations. (Those of you who haven't, know that we've tried everything else already, or we wouldn't be taking this particular measure...swaddling, consistent bedtime ritual, lavendar wash, fan, white noise, patting his bottom and sweet nothings, etc.)

Thanks!
Denise

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Sep 28, 2009
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Submitted by: Anonymous

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Kris, I'm in the same boat. My 5 1/2 month old is a post-colic baby who has some serious residual sleep issues. We've been using the "full extinction" method (basically crying it out) recommended for post-colic babies in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby by Weissbluth. We've been really consistent, and he still wakes sometimes 6-8 times a night. The book does warn that post-colic kids are toughest, perhaps because they are so used to crying. With all due respect, Heather, all babies...all humans, in fact...wake many times during the night as a natural part of the sleep cycle. The problem with young babies is an inability to get back to sleep...they haven't learned how. This often happens if the child has always been rocked or nursed to sleep, for example, never giving the baby an opportunity to get himself to sleep. Advocates of crying it out say if you give the baby the opportunity to learn (by leaving him in his crib, crying or not)he will eventually learn. So, back to you Kris. That's why it's frustrating for us, because we're following the method,and it's not working. In all the anecdotes in the books, everyone says that after a few nights or a week, baby sleeps through the night and wakes with a smile. Have you overcome this problem since your first post? Anyone else out there that used crying it out have any recommendations. (Those of you who haven't, know that we've tried everything else already, or we wouldn't be taking this particular measure...swaddling, consistent bedtime ritual, lavendar wash, fan, white noise, patting his bottom and sweet nothings, etc.) Thanks! Denise

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Sep 28, 2009
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Avoiding the Full Wake Up Cycle
by: Heather ;-)

Crying it out is a good strategy, I used it with all my children. However, if you can make minor adjustments to food or clothing, you can sometimes cut that "cry it out" period in half.

Babies do need to learn to go to sleep by themselves. But minor adjustments can make that learning process easier for everyone.

A little FYI that may be helpful, is that babies have the inverse sleep cycle that adults have. They have REM sleep first (also called active or dream sleep), then followed by the deeper sleep (quiet sleep). Then they rotate back. (Adults fall into deep sleep first, then move into REM.)

It is not uncommon for infants to wake up as they make the transition back and forth. The sleep cycle starts evening out at around 4-8 months. As parents, we try to make that transition period as easy as possible, to limit the full-awake symptoms of crying. As Denise pointed out, babies have to learn to go to sleep - and stay that way. They have to learn how to make those transitions without waking up!

Sometimes that involves crying it out. Sometimes that may involve planning ahead and making small adjustments to keep that transition (crying it out) as short and sweet as possible!

Oct 22, 2009
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Healthy Sleep Habits isn't working for me either!
by: Melissa

I read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child
and found that my daughter fit the post-colic baby to a "t".

She is 17 weeks old now and although she sleep through the night from 6 - 11 weeks she started waking every hour to nurse for the past few weeks. We were both exhausted and so we strictly implemented the extinction method. She cried for 40 minutes the first night then practically slept through the night. The problem is it hasn't been working that well since.

We're on day 6 and she'll still cry anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. She doesn't seem more well rested either. I want to call Dr. Weissbluth and tell him his plan doesn't work. There are so many inconsistencies in the book. Especially with the feeding area.

He says it's ok to go in to feed them every 4-6 hours but that seems to be confusing the babies, how do they know why you're coming in sometimes and not others? And then in the same chapter he relates an experience with a very colicky baby whom he told the parents not to go in at all to feed. In fact he told mom to spend the night somewhere else.

I so wanted this to work, but since it hasn't I'm no longer willing to hear the screams of my baby girl, I guess we're just gonna both be sleep deprived.

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Oct 22, 2009
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Submitted by: Melissa

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I read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345486455?ie=UTF8&tag=theessinfresf-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0345486455">Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=theessinfresf-20&l=as2&o=1&a=0345486455" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /> and found that my daughter fit the post-colic baby to a "t". She is 17 weeks old now and although she sleep through the night from 6 - 11 weeks she started waking every hour to nurse for the past few weeks. We were both exhausted and so we strictly implemented the extinction method. She cried for 40 minutes the first night then practically slept through the night. The problem is it hasn't been working that well since. We're on day 6 and she'll still cry anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. She doesn't seem more well rested either. I want to call Dr. Weissbluth and tell him his plan doesn't work. There are so many inconsistencies in the book. Especially with the feeding area. He says it's ok to go in to feed them every 4-6 hours but that seems to be confusing the babies, how do they know why you're coming in sometimes and not others? And then in the same chapter he relates an experience with a very colicky baby whom he told the parents not to go in at all to feed. In fact he told mom to spend the night somewhere else. I so wanted this to work, but since it hasn't I'm no longer willing to hear the screams of my baby girl, I guess we're just gonna both be sleep deprived.

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Oct 23, 2009
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Hmmmm...Interesting
by: Heather ;-)

Melissa,

I've not read the book you're referring to, so I can't comment on it directly (although with Baby #3 due in a few weeks, it's time to head to Borders!).

However, if he's advising parents to spend the night away in an effort to avoid feeding their baby...that's a little alarming to me. Although we have let our children cry it out in the past, we've also learned how to "read" them.

If she's hungry, for gosh sake, it's time to feed! It's much easier (and better) to let our baby cry it out if I understand why she's crying. Otherwise it about tears my heart in two!

You'll have to decide at what your baby needs, and then determine whether "crying it out" is the right approach, or if she needs something else. With Elena, there came a time when I knew she was just mad. Her diaper was clean, her tummy full, her room comfortable, she was burped...she just wanted to be rocked to sleep (and still likes to be rocked, at 2 1/2!). When we started that transition, it was not uncommon for her to cry for 45 minutes to an hour at the beginning, and it took several days to get past that. I'd rock her, but just not to sleep (and still do!).

Again, in our situation, we understood why she was crying (just anger) and could stand our ground. You are the expert on your baby. If you know there's something going on (tummy ache, colic stuff) than I would continue on as you can for a few more weeks/months before trying to train her to sleep on her own.

These early months are full of self-sacrifice for us moms and dads. Training is important, but at the appropriate time. At this point, I would try to figure out why she's crying, and then look at that to determine whether you need to try "tough love" or allow her to be coddled for a little while longer.

If she had colic earlier, than it might not be time for "crying it out" right now. I have friends who, due to health issues, waited until close to their infant's 2nd birthday to begin serious sleep-training. It was difficult, but the baby needed that extra care during those years.

I hope this is helpful.

Good luck!
Heather ;-)

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Oct 23, 2009
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Submitted by: Heather ;-)

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Melissa, I've not read the book you're referring to, so I can't comment on it directly (although with Baby #3 due in a few weeks, it's time to head to Borders!). However, if he's advising parents to spend the night away in an effort to avoid feeding their baby...that's a little alarming to me. Although we have let our children cry it out in the past, we've also learned how to "read" them. If she's hungry, for gosh sake, it's time to feed! It's much easier (and better) to let our baby cry it out if I understand why she's crying. Otherwise it about tears my heart in two! You'll have to decide at what your baby needs, and then determine whether "crying it out" is the right approach, or if she needs something else. With Elena, there came a time when I knew she was just mad. Her diaper was clean, her tummy full, her room comfortable, she was burped...she just wanted to be rocked to sleep (and still likes to be rocked, at 2 1/2!). When we started that transition, it was not uncommon for her to cry for 45 minutes to an hour at the beginning, and it took several days to get past that. I'd rock her, but just not to sleep (and still do!). Again, in our situation, we understood why she was crying (just anger) and could stand our ground. You are the expert on your baby. If you know there's something going on (tummy ache, colic stuff) than I would continue on as you can for a few more weeks/months before trying to train her to sleep on her own. These early months are full of self-sacrifice for us moms and dads. Training is important, but at the appropriate time. At this point, I would try to figure out why she's crying, and then look at that to determine whether you need to try "tough love" or allow her to be coddled for a little while longer. If she had colic earlier, than it might not be time for "crying it out" right now. I have friends who, due to health issues, waited until close to their infant's 2nd birthday to begin serious sleep-training. It was difficult, but the baby needed that extra care during those years. I hope this is helpful. Good luck! Heather ;-)

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Oct 23, 2009
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Update (part 1)
by: Denise

Boy...I'm quite certain I could not go on like this until Luca turns 2. I'm like a walking zombie as it is.

Luca is 6 1/2 months now. We "cried it out" for quite a while with intermittent success. But never did he sleep through the night. He sleeps from 6 pm - 12 am pretty consistently (the early bedtime as recommended by Weissbluth), putting himself back to sleep within a minute or two if he awakens. Progress.

For a while I would nurse at around midnight, then he'd sleep until about 4, nurse again, and then it was very spotty until 6 or 7. Then it all got weird again, where he started waking almost every hour during the night, not getting himself back to sleep. Did I mention in my first post he's been swaddled all this time? Following the recs to deal with colic from the The Happiest Baby on the Block.

Unfortunately, the author doesn't tell you how to undo the all the habits you get into coping with the colic (baby's addiction to the swaddle, sushing, bouncing, pacifier). At his 6 month pediatric visit, the doctor said it was time to unswaddle. I was so nervous because when I've tried in the past, he wakes himself up so quickly...hands all over his face, gouging his eyes, pulling his hair, etc.

On the flip side, in order to learn how to self-soothe, he needs to be able to get to his hands (paci, teddy, roll over, etc.). In the mean time I read yet another sleep book (Sleeping Through the Night), and, just tonight, began following her basic bedtime method.

In short, with a consistent bedtime and bedtime routine, put him down awake...and in our case, unswaddled, then check back as often as you wish...every 30 seconds,fifteen minutes, etc., reassuring but not picking up, until he falls asleep on his own. If he wakes during the night, deal with him as usual (nurse, rock, etc.) for a couple weeks until, when he regularly can get himself to sleep on his own, he will naturally sleep through the night. (cont.)

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Oct 23, 2009
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Submitted by: Denise

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Boy...I'm quite certain I could not go on like this until Luca turns 2. I'm like a walking zombie as it is. Luca is 6 1/2 months now. We "cried it out" for quite a while with intermittent success. But never did he sleep through the night. He sleeps from 6 pm - 12 am pretty consistently (the early bedtime as recommended by Weissbluth), putting himself back to sleep within a minute or two if he awakens. Progress. For a while I would nurse at around midnight, then he'd sleep until about 4, nurse again, and then it was very spotty until 6 or 7. Then it all got weird again, where he started waking almost every hour during the night, not getting himself back to sleep. Did I mention in my first post he's been swaddled all this time? Following the recs to deal with colic from the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553381466?ie=UTF8&tag=theessinfresf-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0553381466">The Happiest Baby on the Block</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=theessinfresf-20&l=as2&o=1&a=0553381466" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />. Unfortunately, the author doesn't tell you how to undo the all the habits you get into coping with the colic (baby's addiction to the swaddle, sushing, bouncing, pacifier). At his 6 month pediatric visit, the doctor said it was time to unswaddle. I was so nervous because when I've tried in the past, he wakes himself up so quickly...hands all over his face, gouging his eyes, pulling his hair, etc. On the flip side, in order to learn how to self-soothe, he needs to be able to get to his hands (paci, teddy, roll over, etc.). In the mean time I read yet another sleep book (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060742569?ie=UTF8&tag=theessinfresf-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0060742569">Sleeping Through the Night</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=theessinfresf-20&l=as2&o=1&a=0060742569" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />), and, just tonight, began following her basic bedtime method. In short, with a consistent bedtime and bedtime routine, put him down awake...and in our case, unswaddled, then check back as often as you wish...every 30 seconds,fifteen minutes, etc., reassuring but not picking up, until he falls asleep on his own. If he wakes during the night, deal with him as usual (nurse, rock, etc.) for a couple weeks until, when he regularly can get himself to sleep on his own, he will naturally sleep through the night. (cont.)

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Oct 23, 2009
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Update (part 2)
by: Denise

(cont.) So...we planned to start tonight, and I've been so nervous all week and picked up a bottle of wine on my way home thinking I'd need it to get through the first night of what I imagined would be endless crying (she warns that "willful" babies...like Luca...could take a number of weeks)and guess what?

I put him down, put a pacifier, his favorite little monkey, and one of those little foot square blankets in his crib. I decided to wait 5 minutes before checking on him. He cried mildly for a couple minutes. At 5 minutes, he was only wimpering a bit, so I decided to delay my check in, not wanting to disrupt him if he was almost out. At 7 minutes he was silent. At 10 minutes I checked on him...almost out!

Didn't even know I was in the room. Checked 5 minutes later...sound asleep, paci in mouth, little blanket on top of his head...which for some reason he loves (makes me a little nervous). But he's asleep! And it was so easy!

I'm having my glass of wine in celebration instead of depression! Now for the wakings... He woke up about an hour later. I decided to go in to shush him after five minutes. Again...I never had to go in. He got himself back to sleep before I got there. It's only 8:00, so there's a long night ahead, but I can't tell you how optimistic I am!

Melissa, I completely agree with you. Weissbluth...and every other author I've read, be it book or website...is not clear about the feeding situation when doing the cry it out thing. They all stress how consistency is important, but then are vague about what to do. We chose arbitrary time periods of four hours...if he woke before four hours, we'd let him cry. At four hours or more, I'd nurse him. But he can't tell time.

It must have been so confusing as you say and proven to be inconsistent and hence, ineffective. I think I've concluded that, although I desperately wanted to get Luca's sleep managed at 4 months when babies are technically, allegedly, able to self-soothe, that 6 months makes more sense for tougher babies because

a) it's when most experts agree that all babies are physiologically capable of sleeping through the night without feeds, so you don't have to wonder if the baby really needs to eat, and

b) most babies have the dexterity to find and grab their soothing devices (paci, teddy, whatever).

I would feel guilty and stupid for causing us all a loss of sleep for keeping him swaddled this long if I didn't know that he's only been able to get his own pacifier in his mouth for a couple weeks, and during that time we took a vacation...never a good time to make a change.
(cont.)

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Oct 23, 2009
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Submitted by: Denise

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(cont.) So...we planned to start tonight, and I've been so nervous all week and picked up a bottle of wine on my way home thinking I'd need it to get through the first night of what I imagined would be endless crying (she warns that "willful" babies...like Luca...could take a number of weeks)and guess what? I put him down, put a pacifier, his favorite little monkey, and one of those little foot square blankets in his crib. I decided to wait 5 minutes before checking on him. He cried mildly for a couple minutes. At 5 minutes, he was only wimpering a bit, so I decided to delay my check in, not wanting to disrupt him if he was almost out. At 7 minutes he was silent. At 10 minutes I checked on him...almost out! Didn't even know I was in the room. Checked 5 minutes later...sound asleep, paci in mouth, little blanket on top of his head...which for some reason he loves (makes me a little nervous). But he's asleep! And it was so easy! I'm having my glass of wine in celebration instead of depression! Now for the wakings... He woke up about an hour later. I decided to go in to shush him after five minutes. Again...I never had to go in. He got himself back to sleep before I got there. It's only 8:00, so there's a long night ahead, but I can't tell you how optimistic I am! Melissa, I completely agree with you. Weissbluth...and every other author I've read, be it book or website...is not clear about the feeding situation when doing the cry it out thing. They all stress how consistency is important, but then are vague about what to do. We chose arbitrary time periods of four hours...if he woke before four hours, we'd let him cry. At four hours or more, I'd nurse him. But he can't tell time. It must have been so confusing as you say and proven to be inconsistent and hence, ineffective. I think I've concluded that, although I desperately wanted to get Luca's sleep managed at 4 months when babies are technically, allegedly, able to self-soothe, that 6 months makes more sense for tougher babies because a) it's when most experts agree that all babies are physiologically capable of sleeping through the night without feeds, so you don't have to wonder if the baby really needs to eat, and b) most babies have the dexterity to find and grab their soothing devices (paci, teddy, whatever). I would feel guilty and stupid for causing us all a loss of sleep for keeping him swaddled this long if I didn't know that he's only been able to get his own pacifier in his mouth for a couple weeks, and during that time we took a vacation...never a good time to make a change. (cont.)

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Oct 23, 2009
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Update (part 3)
by: Denise

(cont.)
Also, Melissa, all the books say you should be able to differentiate between baby's "hunger cry" and other cries, but unless you have a colicky baby, you don't understand that the crying is just different than for other kids. I think they are just so used to crying inconsolably for what seem like mysterious reasons, that that type of crying persists beyond the actual colic. I consider myself pretty in-tuned, I just cannot tell what's eating him most of the time (based on cries...during the day, when I can watch his behavior, yes...but not out of a sleep in the middle of the night).

I so wished, and still do, that there was another Mom I knew who had recently gone through what I had with the colic whom I could commiserate with. Melissa, if you feel similarly, I'm happy to give you what support I can. I'm no expert, except on my little Luca, but I can share my experience. My email address is Denise@TheBalanceAdvocate.com (can I put that here?)

Good luck. I'm hoping to get a good night's sleep: ) Sorry for the super-long, triple post!

Denise

Oct 23, 2009
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Great Posts!
by: Heather ;-)

Denise,

Wonderful posts! Thanks so much for keeping us in the loop. I've linked the books, if anyone wants to check them out (I know I will be!).

I'm going to add some contests to the site in the near future - including prizes for book reviews - I hope you enter with reviews of these books, since you offer great perspective! (Sign up for my blog to be notified the contests launch.)

I'm crossing my fingers for good rest tonight!

warm regards,
Heather

Oct 27, 2009
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Crying it Out
by: Miranda

hi - we are really struggling as well. My little one needs nursing and cajoling to sleep day and evening. I haven't even attempted the 'cry it out' during the night yet as I am not clear when she want food and when she just wants comfort at the moment.

I bring her into the bed with me on and off during the night and she seems to be awake/feeding/asleep a bit from midnight until around 5.30 a.m. when she tends to drop off again.

I have tried letting her cry it out at bedtime. I was putting her down quite late, but for the last 7 nights I have put her down around 7 and she has cried for a full 1 hr 20 mins every night.

My partner has been away a lot of the nights so it is me doing it and it's breaking my heart. I hate it and she doesn't seem to be learning at all as yet. Any advice? Shall I just give up for now and continue nursing to sleep?